Where Do the Guilds Come From?

#7

I wonder if the setup of Mer Gost was less like the Western kings and queens, and maybe more tribal? There may have been a wise-person who wasn’t necessarily a ruler but more of a guide?

Actually, I’m somewhat more confused by this, now that I think of it. When I first read it, my assumption was that each of the houses worked like a mini-kingdom. So like, you had a monarch, some noble titles like dukes/barons/etc, and then everyone else in the house would be the common people. But it honestly sounds like the Royal Houses were just that, only royalty? But what does that mean for everyone else? And there surely must have been an ‘everyone else’ or else there would have been no power in the titles. If everyone’s royalty, then no one is, you know?

I have to admit - and I will say part of this is me being a 21st century person - I don’t like the exclusivity. Does it bother anyone else to think that the guilds might’ve started as an exclusive club? They’re so open now. It’s weird to think of them so differently.

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#8

That’s actually my train of thought as well, Rev. It would explain why our guild hall are the nomadic grounds of our guild, rather than a big palace or expansive workshop. I also like your thoughts, Robert, and appreciate the compliment to Gossmere. While I think we certainly have/had our own traditions it seems they were certainly among the most… disperate, and like the common drum, they are unique to the individual.

But like you said, Rev, we have come a long way now. The doors are open, and people are flooding in. I like to think that while we have a bit of our old houses in us, we are the best parts of them.

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#9

@Revenir Thank you for clarifying that the Book of Briars is a time period and not a literal book :joy:. Now I can keep this in mind while finishing up the book. Yeah, the seventh guild is a complete mystery right now, and I am waiting for someone to come up with a theory about it disappearing. :brandonthinking:

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#10

In my mind, the Royal Houses were what the Wool tried to build from the remnants of what they found in the ruins of Neithernor, post Anne of Brittany’s death.

I imagine it was like trying to rebuild the workings of a middle-kingdom Egyptian dynasty from etchings on a wall. Or maybe they knew the didn’t have it right and they were building their own concepts on top of what they found.

I wonder if The Book of Briars came to them at some point or not. I wonder if they were all lost in the War for Neithernor. Maybe that’s why we know so little.

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#11

And if I’m right, which I might totally NOT be, then the Silver may have been the unofficial 7th house. Remember, a deal was made to allow them to take up residence in Neithernor. The other houses may have given them the title of Unnamed or the “Unwritten” house, because there was literally nothing written about them in the old ruins.

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#12

I was gonna say, I don’t think it’s impossible for the House of the Unnamed to be the Silver, especially considering they’re the only other large, persisting group of known magiq users we’re aware of.

I’m more interested in the original circumstances of the Guide to MAGIQ, and especially way the Guilds sort of self-perpetuate wherever they’re found? I think I said this in a thread a long time ago, but when AGP originally published the Guide, who were they writing it for? How was the assessment administered, and what happened after you finished it? In some ways, more than anything else we’ve found, the Guide feels like a relic from another world.

And yet, at least the many of us now on the Forum feel like we need to do something with that result; be with others in our Guild and do things. Same with the Order’s Houses - they stumbled onto the ruins of these societies and, instead of just preserving and studying them, attempted to recreate them, even with so little information about the original Guilds available. And the fact that each Guild has a corresponding magimystic element makes me wonder if the Guilds aren’t based on natural distinctions in Magiq that are continually drawn and redrawn in every new iteration of magimystics? Like, even without the Guide, given time and information about the elements, would we ultimately suss out schools like the Guilds anyway? :thinking:

This has been pre-caffeine Friday thoughts with Viv.

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#13

Knowing who they are and what they’ve become, for some reason this statement gives me serious chills.

Drawing on this idea that the guilds are essential derivations of the natural elements of magiq, maybe that casts the House Unnamed as a cautionary tale about what happens to magimystics who buck the harmony of the order of the elements/guilds.

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#14

Possibly, although their being “unwritten” just means we don’t know details of what they did. Were they really operating outside an elemental structure? Or maybe they didn’t collectively preserve the harmony of the elements, by cutting out some and keeping others? Or perverting them to do creepy, evil things? Who knows, maybe the Silver had, like, corrupted Dark Guilds…

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#15

I think that’s one of the important things about what we have here on the Forums, though. The Monarchs/Monarch’s Mountain/Wool folks have consistently been an inexclusive and archaic. The same could be said of their versions of the guilds, as much as that’s something that we might not want to admit. That’s because the Monarchs haven’t made the effort to be more adaptive and inclusive, and the guilds they created from the houses aren’t much better.

But that doesn’t mean our own interpretations aren’t valid. What @Saberlane said is a really important point: what they made was based on what they found when they went to Neithernor. Our own interpretations based on the guide and what we’ve been able to find are just as valid in that sense. I think that’s important to keep in mind as we’re having this conversation :laurensmile:. The guilds may have come from undesirable backgrounds, but we’ve made them into our own inclusive family :eaveshug:.

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#16

So I’m just trying to piece together what I’ve read so far, but what idea to we have that suggests the 7th guild didn’t have an element associated with it? It might do us well to reverse engineer the process; if we assume the guild is associated with an element, we can figure out what the seventh element is first, and from there learn more about the guild.

But also I might be completely wrong, because this is a lot to take in over the short period of time I’ve been with all of you.

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#17

I rather like this notion, and I think it spirals together nicely with what @Remus said about our current interpretations being just as valid. The elemental base is always there, but the cohort that is drawn around it and how the individuals decide to structure themselves could take all manner of forms. Given that the Wool folks who found Neithernor were likely nobles themselves in this world, it makes some sense that they would set themselves up as royalty in this new world.

I also wonder if there was actually a seventh guild mentioned in the ruins, and if so what was the nature of the history found? If the existence of a seventh guild was referenced in the ruins without a name or any information, then calling it “the Unnamed” makes perfect sense, as would using it for other purposes even without knowing the element it represents.

If a seventh guild was mentioned in the ruins specifically as “the Unnamed”, well that has an ominous feel to it all of its own.

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#18

This is blowing my mind. :joy: I never even considered the gap from the original houses to the Wool discovery being so large! I always thought it would have been a smaller gap - maybe more like the fall of Rome or the start of, like, the feudal system. I can’t even imagine what magiq would look like in the interim.

That makes more sense though. In some ways, the Monarchs made what they knew, with regards to the royalty system. But that still makes me wonder - how did they decide who was royalty and who was not? How did they make up this society? Was it based on mundane titles?

Also I really want to know what’s left? We know that the Monarchs still exist in some form, so what kind of documentation do they have on their history? Now I really wanna know what @Endri found during her time sorting their archives.

And if the Silver were basically made to be a new “house” by the Monarchs, perhaps that’s in part why magiq is in such peril? They changed the natural flow of the six elements by trying to manufacture another, and it caused the balance to be disturbed.

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#19

Here’s a concept: maybe the seventh guild is just where the people who don’t mesh with any of the other guilds went? I’m sure there are adepts out there and possibly even people amongst us now who don’t feel quite sure of their guild identity. It’s true that the seventh guild might be the Silvers (and it’s an intriguing and worrying thought!) But isn’t it also possible that they’re unnamed because… They’re just not linked to any particular circle? Just a house of people who are unsure or don’t belong, finding solace in each other. That feels like a warmer concept (and also explains why not much would be written about them?)
I don’t know, just a thought!

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#20

This was my initial thinking, when I’d assumed that the Houses predated the paths of Wool and Silver.

It’s one of those things we don’t know. The easiest way would be to, well, ask the Silver. But they’re unfortunately on that whole “destroy the Mountaineers” bent. Well, and I suppose their whole ethos is about hoarding magiq for themselves and destroying anyone who tries to gain magimystical knowledge. Sadly, that makes things quite difficult for us.

The only way we’d ever learn about the Silver and if they are the unnamed would be if someone switched sides and spilled the beans. The closest we got to that was Teddy Fallon, but even then, he was not an actual Silver agent. He was more of a tool. Like, if the Silver was a fast food empire, he’d be the franchise owner, if that makes sense. :brandonthinking:

This is an interesting question. Historically, what has been done with guildless people? Is there a name for them, a sort of role? I actually previously called myself Unnamed for a hot second because I had the same thoughts as you. I actually think it would be a cool concept to explore.

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#21

I don’t think the Silver are the house of the Unnamed as we know that there is the House of the Silver in Neithernor on an island somewhere in the Neithernorian Sea.

I’ve always personally thought that the guild less were placed into the house of the unnamed until they were named like Deirdre was at the battle of the storm. Then I assume there is some kind do sorting ceremony.

I’ve never strongly identified with any of the guilds so I’m just part of all of them but largely reside in Thornmouth as it’s the coolest :wink:

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#22

Actually, the closest person would have been Woolie. I wish his spirit wasn’t so tortured, that we could have learned more of the history of our predecessors from him.

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#23

Only problem is is that Woolie is now at peace with his beloved so unless we wanna start trying our hand at necromancy we won’t get far there. It’s a shame we didn’t get more time with him in his untortured state

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#24

I would never even have thought of that as an option. I meant more being able to talk with him while he was present; a missed chance to learn at the time.

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#25

Do you think that he may have left some residual memory’s in Sabes head?

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#26

They weren’t named the House of the Silver, though. We were told that story from Sullivan Green, who was telling us how the paths of Wool and Silver came to be. But he never mentioned the royal houses at all in his story. We learned that information from Steve.

From what we understand, naming is a bit different. It seems pretty special. Deirdre being named Stormslayer was an honored title, something pretty rare.

@Augustus_Octavian - That’s valid. I don’t know why, but I saw Woolie as different because of the tenuous connection he had to our reality. We weren’t able to ask him questions or speak with him directly. Fallon is still alive and kicking (probably?) so there was a chance to ask him questions…though I suppose that would be quite difficult.

Oh, that does bring up an interesting possibility. @Saberlane - do you remember Woolie ever mentioning anything about a “House of the Silver” or something like that?

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