Time Paradox Group decision for Fragment 13


By paradox, I meant a time loop or perhaps some sort of anti-matter kind of situation.


Betrayal, by my own love.


Time loops we can break, anti matter is literally an entirely different universe, one that has limited effect on ours


Heres where I am at:

We have spent 12 fragments trying to understand Sullivan, 12 fragments trying to unlock the Book of Briars to help restore Magiq. Now we are confronted with a tough decision where we may now not do what we have been doing for the last year? I am sorry, but I am prepared to sacrifice my current state if it stops the storm and unlocks the Book of Briars. We knew tough decisions would have to be made throughout this journey. This may be the toughest, it may not. I know where I stand.

Sullivan sacrificed himself for this…


I agree with @Brendon. I actually posted here about it too - http://forum.basecamp33.com/t/new-dg-post-here-where-we-go/1289/36?u=kelsey

I just want to add that I’m not being critical about the poll or debates surrounding how it effects us - I know it’s scary to think that we could be erased, but I think we have to be more selfless and think of the greater good instead of what we want. Even if we don’t follow Sullivan’s path, what will most likely happen? The Book will still be destroyed and the Storm will come and destroy us all anyways. We have worked so hard for this, I don’t think we should be backing down now and I don’t think another opportunity is going to present itself to save us all in another way (but don’t quote me on that - never say never and all that).

I love you Mounties and would never want this to be gone, but we could do so much good if we follow Sullivan.


While I don’t trust this route and I feel that we should at the very least explore other options before we make a final decision, I acknowledge that this is the path that the majority of us Mountaineers have chosen. I stand by you, all of you, with that decision. Let’s see where this takes us.


So I was right, we have to send the 94 Mounties the key! I know alot of you are against potentially erasing our existence but we only exist to fulfill this one purpose. It’s our mission and I won’t abandon it. If there was another way then I’d be all for it as I don’t want to lose everything we have here. But we can’t be selfish if sending the key back, like i suggested, saves lives then we have to do it. Maybe the council will protect us, bending time so that even if we save them we will still be created. I don’t know. This is dangerous ground and we have to be careful but we must also not for get our mission!


One of my fondest memories from my undergraduate years was when a group of Buddhist monks came to my (Catholic) college and made a stunning mandala out of sand in the student union. It took them days, and it was incredible. At the end, it was swept up and poured in to a river in town to bless it. Recently, I saw a musician with one tattooed on his back and it just seemed wrong.

What the mandala taught me was the lesson of impermanence. Nothing we design and build can last forever - when you accept this truth it helps to live in the present and make the most of the now. I didn’t immediately learn the lesson after watching the mandala be swept away. I got the point intellectually, but I was actually irritated that such a beautiful work of art was destroyed. It took me years of living life and thinking back to the mandala here and there to figure out how the intellectual lesson played out in every day life. I really only arrived at acceptance of the lesson after introspectively mulling my reaction to seeing the mandala tattoo - it was too permanent, and that’s why I felt a wrongness when I saw it.

Is it hard to imagine not having our daily discourse? Yes? Not solving nearly impossible puzzles and mysteries with one another? Yes. Not listening to each other’s stories around the virtual campfire? Yes. Was it ever meant to last forever? No. Will helping the '94 Mounties open their book save lives? Yes and no. Will Itsuki still have a brain tumor even if he didn’t succumb to KS’s subliminal messages? Probably.

There are things we can change in life and things we cannot. Impermanence is one of the things we cannot change. We can change things by breaking open the secret hiding magiq from our world by opening the '94 Book of Briars. We have an opportunity to do so, and I say we take it.


See, my fear is that something will go entirety wrong if we try it. The 94 Mountiees are currently being slowly killed? by the Storm. What would happen if we sent them the Key and they still disappeared.


We will still have a copy in the literal sense. That’s why I’m advocating for helping them protect themselves if we can.


I’ll give my two cents and then I’ll shut up and let you do whatever you’re going to do.

I’m old. How old? Well extremely old for a head of lettuce. In terms of a mountain I have not even begun to age. For a man I’m just right. (Sorry had to bastardize one more movie quote).

I look back on my life and see a long, long string of decisions, accidents, joys, sacrifices and coincidences. Every single one of them, good, bad and ugly, has gotten me to this point. That chain of events is built of pure tissue paper. A single minute off here or there and I could be anywhere else. I like where I am now, I have a family, I am comfortable with my place in the world and I would never change a single thing in my past.

Am I being selfish? Sure. But am I alone in that? If we do this. If we change the past. Even if Magiq tries to smooth everything out, things will change. Is there going to be some person sitting home alone at night with a feeling of ultimate loss because they vaguely remember a life where they had happiness until some shadowy organization came along and decided to change history on them?

I refuse to become another Storm just to fix the first one.


@Robert is better at saying what I mean than I am. Time is the worst because so much can go wrong. If we open the BoB what happens to Silver? What happens to the Storm? We were never told the Storm would just disappear. (I really hope it does, it gives me the spooks.)


That is why Magiq related to time is considered so dangerous, but let’s not get out of control with our theorizing. Catastrophizing.

The bottom line for me is that I’m hearing protests with no solutions, and if it turns out that this is the correct one, morally and strategically, we are wasting time. And not every instance of messing with history involves a disaster.

Moreover, the Storm doesn’t alter history, which is what we’re talking about here. It just erases your memory and, it seems, erases you.

You are all 100% entitled to your fears and objections, they’re valid. I understand them. But what alternative do you propose?

EDIT: As Rev said below, I want everyone to have their say and express their feelings on the situation. But I need… alternatives. IF we’re going to betray Sullivan’s plan and his sacrifice, and forsake the 94 Mounties, I need a very good backup plan.


Please don’t shut up, Robert! You clearly feel very passionately about this situation and your voice should be heard, same as anyone else’s.

But I think the question here is what’s the alternative? What do you propose we do if we’re not helping the past Mounties unlock their book?


I may not have as much life experience as you but I see where your coming from. I have already made my position on this topic clear but I do still have reservations. Now for a bit of devils advocate. Here and now the 94 Mounties are dead or lost. I think some of us are too emotionally invested in this, and I know this is gonna sound awful but I think we have to look at this logically. Why risk our lives and this community to save the dead? Why should we go gentle into that good night?


https://youtu.be/SxjoSaio_5E This all reminds me of this scene from Legion… us being erased from memory. It’s all to much to take in


We’ve been risking our lives for others and for what is “lost” this entire time. This is just the end of a path we’ve already been following. We’ve lost Marty, Aether, Itsuki, and others on this road.

Magiq is “lost” and dying in our world right now.

It’s not going gentle into the good night if you’re ending what we understand to be a decades, if not centuries-long fight.


For me this also comes down to a quote.
Something I once told my mother when I was very young, a pair of fair wings attached to my back.
I told her this, very plainly, “I’m here to bring the magic back.” I was about 7 or 8 at the time and she was a little taken aback, we have this quote on a canvas in our house.

So reminding myself of my conviction then I realized I’d rather use my existence to bring magic back, then exist where I let it die.
I understand everyone’s passion, trust me, as a Gossmere the bonds I make I hold very near and dear. However, as a wise mountie said to me
This isn’t about us.


We are if we don’t fight for the preservation of this timeline. This is our fight the 94 Mounties lost theirs, they had their chance. Sullivan says “We have you Now, and an unburned book Then.” And “Your book is gone, but with our guidance you are going to help your predecessors open theirs.” He never says we have to save them.


By opening that book we are saving them. We are assuming the power inside is strong enough to keep off the Storm, which is what killed them.