Second Magimystic Assessment is here!

I think I’ve found my problem. I’ve read the first 4 Harry Potter books and I couldn’t tell you what Ravenclaw’s defining features were. :slight_smile: Descriptions of groups like that just bounce off me, because they are subjective and generalizations at best, stereotypes at worst.

We can leave my shortcomings to the side for the time being. That shouldn’t stop the Mountaineers from moving forward. Let’s test the theory we have and cross upcoming bridges when we get to them.

I’ve gone through the Magic Guide and many of our old blog posts. I don’t see any in game description tying these guilds to a direction. Don’t see them in the triptychs or any description in Deidre’s journal. Anyone have thoughts of where else to check?

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I have rechecked all of Cag’s files and e-mails, Cole’s blog (another dream perhaps?), even all of King Rabbit’s stuff (I felt icky doing that and I don’t want to do that ever again). Nothing about where the guilds lie on the compass

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Determining which cardinal direction each Guild lies is going to be tough, but I think there has to be a way we can do it. We already know two for sure: Gossmere (Friendship) in the NW and Thornmouth (Study) in the SE.

As for Courage and Wild, I believe Wild refers to Balimora and Courage to Weather watch. If this is true, then those two guilds occupy the W and SW spots on the compass because of where the dots appeared. So, if this is how we’re supposed to solve this, then we need to:

  1. Determine location of each Guild on the Guild Compass
  2. Pair adjectives from assessment questions to their appropriate Guild
  3. Use those “directions” to move our way along the tetrahedron to find the answer animal

So, basically, once we have 1 and 2, we will be able to solve 3.

I’m not quite sure how to go about 1 yet (looks like the more logic-oriented among us can find a way), but 2 is something we can do. I know which words I would pair with certain Guilds, but there is a fair amount of ambiguity there. We should probably come up with a consensus of which words belong with which Guild. Of course, does discussing specific words from the assessment violate the Book’s rule? I’m going to say no since there doesn’t seem to be any other way to do this, but I’m curious what everyone else thinks.

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I may be in the minority here, as I am sure everyone is wanting to complete this assessment, but I think we should tread lightly on determining which words are specific to each guild as a group. I guess I see that as essentially giving the correct answers. As @Endri has told us, the book likes to teach us things and to make us think. And I am not sure I want to incur the Book’s wrath.

But I could also be very wrong.

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I agree with @Mike that the only way many of us (certainly me) are ever going to solve this is if we come up with a universal agreement on which words tie to which guilds. I’ve tried, and I can’t even begin to guess which guilds half those words are meant to correspond to. Maybe I can narrow down most of those words to 2-3 possible guilds, but I’m not going to try hundreds of different of permutations of animals hoping to guess the right one.

I also agree with @Brendon. I don’t see how listing the words, and tying them to a guild here isn’t just giving away direct answers.

My suggestion is if any of you think you can tie all of these words to a group then by all means try to solve it yourself. Maybe only one person needs to solve this one. Now if you do solve it and the book tells you ‘great now 20 more people need to’…then we need to find a way to raise our collective guild sterotype IQ I guess.

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I think I may have found the answer for where the Guilds lie on the compass. Or, actually, @Kelsey did. When we were figuring out how to perform the spell with all six points of the Guild to solve Fragment 8, @Kelsey posted the elements that @CRSumner found in the burning library:

Weatherwatch: Light
First look upon the red horizon
All awakened by my force
I am the mother and the son, the rising sun my source.

Gossmere: Air
Morning’s called me many names
Gravity and untouched things
Though I am but a force unseen carried on imagined wings

Flinterforge: Fire
As fire hangs midway in the sky
Move the ground to summon me
But only fire and force will show what I can truly be.

Ebenguard: Water
Day grows weary, night awakes
Five moons call to the water
A careful step upon the land but sea is too my daughter

Thornmouth: Darkness
Night black curtains drape the world
Memory and misery, rage and reason too
All are born inside of me, and I am born in you

Balimora: Earth
The darkened world is stirring now
Before dawn breaks its silence
Life and death move hand in have, the minuet of violence

If we look at the descriptions, each Guild occupies a time of day. For example, Weatherwatch is “first look upon the red horizon.” And we know from the dots that Weather watch is either W or SW (I know the sun rises in the east, but I think this operates like a clock rather than a compass). So if Weatherwatch is on the horizon, that puts it at W. So going by the descriptions in each, I plotted out what I think the arrangement should be:

Does everyone agree this is how it should be laid out or did I screw something up?

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Ok. I don’t think we should use the exact words, but I don’t think it should be a problem to just generally discuss the guild? Like how I quoted relevant sentences to back up the traits Endri mentioned.

For example, here’s passages I think might be important to remember about Ebenguards:

  • Magic affinity includes: “Combat Magic”
  • “You’ve probably always felt an innate sense of right and wrong” (What’s the negative side of a person who’s maybe a bit holier than thou?)
  • “No matter who you choose to be, when the scales tip to the side of disorder and darkness, you are called to right it,”

Note that I’m not mentioning what parts of the question it relates to, but it can help you come up with your own conclusions.

Of course, there are some I’m not 100% about, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But it could maybe help some people who are just really unsure about the whole thing? :sweat:

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@Mike, you get this fragment’s ‘Smartest person I know’ award. That is absolutely brilliant.

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I certainly don’t know about that. I was just going back through threads that were Guild-centric and that popped out at me. I panicked at first when I saw Weatherwatch as on the horizon for the rising sun (it should be East!) until I realized it worked like a clock.

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Ok, I’m working on figuring out these traits, and here is what I have so far:

Flinterforge:
General summary: Flinterforges are your engineers. They’re smart, but they’re very systematic in their ways. They are kind of like a workhorse - they work hard, nonstop to create things. They are very serious about being productive.

  • “A day spent without soiled hands is a day wasted.”
  • Magic affinity is “Assembling Runes”
  • “You’ve never been one to shy away from big ideas or the hard work required to make those ideas manifest.”

Balimora:
General Summary: Balimoras are kind of the wizened old crones of the group. They have a deep knowledge of the world, and that’s led them to a more natural path. They tend to embrace both the light and dark, the chaos of the world, which makes them a bit erratic. They are also the no-BS guild and will say what needs to be said, but that also can make them seem a bit coldhearted. Dumbledore would probably belong in this guild.

  • “Only The Great Chaos matters now.”
  • A la Endri - "Balimora is the guild who can cut through the nonsense of ego and judgment and “niceness.”
  • “You have always been drawn to the wild, the untamed.”
  • “Awareness of a deeper, more verdant truth in the world will lead you to ancient paths of knowledge”

Ebenguard:
General summary: Ebenguards are very justice oriented. An Ebenguard is tireless in their pursuit to right the wrongs of the world. They have a strong sense of right and wrong, which can be a good thing and a bad thing. It can spur them to do amazing things in the name of good, but it can also make them think they’re on a moral high ground.

  • Magic affinity includes: “Combat Magic”
  • “For harmony and true peace are only possible through the dedication and diligence of those willing to swear their life’s work to it.”
  • “You’ve probably always felt an innate sense of right and wrong” (What’s the negative side of a person who’s maybe a bit holier than thou?)
  • “No matter who you choose to be, when the scales tip to the side of disorder and darkness, you are called to right it” (Think of the scales imagery. What do we do to scales?)

Thornmouth:
General summary: Thornmouths are obsessed with knowledge and finding the truth. As we know, Sherlock was considered a hardcore Thornmouth. They are highly intelligent individuals and quick to learn things, but also very introverted.

  • “study the ancient deeds and lost accounts”
  • “Knowledge is the ultimate prize in this existence, your life’s reward to find the truth in everything”

Gossmere:
General summary: Gossmeres are kind of the bleeding hearts of the guilds. They are the mother hens, taking care of everyone while neglecting themselves. They have big hearts and truly care about the feelings of the people around them.

  • "Your heartbeats echo together in your grasp. "
  • “If they ask for help, do what you can. Listen to their hearts if they are willing to let you.”
  • Magic affinity includes: “Therapeutics”
  • “Offering your hand to another for support, encouragement, for solace and hope.”

Weatherwatch:
General summary: Weatherwatches can be best described as daredevils. They’re brave, willing to go on any wild adventure. They don’t care about taking risks, but that also leads them to be reckless.

  • “You will meet the call out there in the unknown”
  • “You are undoubtedly spontaneous.”
  • “Your sharp tongue might land you in a scrape, but you’ll never fear plunging back into the fray. After all, there’s an opportunity to be had, and who knows if it’ll come around again?”
  • “Let’s head out across the wilder waters.”

Also, if you’re on the fence for some things, I noticed Instagram is hugely helpful.

So that’s what I’ve gotten. But there are some where I’m just kind of on the fence. So here’s questions I have.

  • Which guild seems to be the most happy-go-lucky? (I’m leaning towards Gossmere?)
  • Which guild gives the least shits? (Balimora…?)
  • What guild would Doug from Up belong to? (Balimora…?)
  • What guild would a minimalist painter belong to?
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First off let me say that’s a tremendous breakdown @Revenir. It helps me see the guilds a bit more like maybe others do.

I have a question though. Can we simplify this process? It’s what I do, I’m a programmer and a math geek. I look for and factor out inconsequential steps.

Let’s assume for a minute (and this is a BIG assumption) that each question has 7 words to be applied to 6 guilds, yes? Let’s take that big assumption to mean in each set of 7 words, 5 of the guilds are referred to once, and one guild is referred to twice.

If every guild is represented once in every set then from our starting location we would move NE, SW, W, E, SW, NE in some nearly random order plus one seventh direction for whichever the duplicate guild is. But what happens when you move NE, SW, W, E, SW and NE? You end up in exactly the same place you started from…yes? 6 of those 7 steps basically cancel one another out.

If this (let me repeat MASSIVE) assumption holds true, then the only guild we actually care about for each step is whichever one is referenced TWICE. Then we just move once in that direction and we’re done.

I’m probably vastly oversimplifying this.

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My question, are we using all 6 guilds or are we just using the 4 that we have the “dots” for and the four titles of the journal entries apply to?

Because the words seem like they could just apply to Gossmere, Balimora, Weatherwatch and Thornmouth

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im actually working on a version of this in my personal Magiq notes. if only because i want to interpret it in my words, and see what else i could formulate

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I’ve been assuming all 6. I see some words I could attribute to Flinterforge or Ebenguard. But shrug It’s just so subjective. I might just be trying to force a 4 sided piece into a 6 shaped hole with a hammer just because I think it has to fit.

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After rereading the adjectives, I think you may be on to something. I am going to try some things out

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As awesome as that would be @Robert - the one thing I’m not sure is if each guild appears in each iteration. Or, at least, in the predictions I have, there’s at least one question where there are two guilds that repeat twice, and one where a guild repeats three times. :sweat:

If you’re cool to share @grimangel53 - I think it would be helpful to have as many interpretations as possible. The more solid of an idea we have about the guilds, the better.

@Brendon - that’s a really good point. I was assuming all 6 guilds are involved in the questions, just because there are ones that seem to pretty strongly describe Ebenguards and Flinterforges as well. Though…I guess that brings us back to the question of what was the purpose of those dots - just to give us the compass directions or something more?

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I agree with @Robert that we should be using all six to figure out the directions, not just the four. I think the four dots were just to show us how the words should be used to indicate a direction using the Guild Compass.

As for the subjectivity of the words, that is a problem. I’ve tried to assign a guild to each word, but there’s no way to tell if some of the more ambiguous words are correct or not.

I’m also having trouble with the directions themselves. For example, if I wanted to move in Gossmere direction(NW) from say the Squirrel, is that Elephant or Toucan?

And it would make sense that all six Guilds are used in each question, with one being used twice. But my first couple of passes trying to pair the words has left a Guild out on some pages. It could be that I’m just not pairing them correctly, or it could mean that not every Guild is used in each question. I just don’t know.

But @Revenir your write-up is a HUGE help!

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Yeah, I am more in line with your guys’ thinking now that I am looking over words again

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Psst. Maybe @Mike is spot on

OOG

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I’ve thought a lot about this specifically. Were I testing someone I would want to it so when they came up with the correct answer, there would be zero ambiguity. In that case I would hope there is no situation like this. Meaning, the testees would never be put in a situation where they needed to move NW when there are 2 equal choices.

If that assumption is true it can give us little hints. Maybe Gossmere is never an answer when you are on a piece with no clear NW direction to go?

But that’s another assumption I’m making on the pile of 16 others I’ve made.

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