A Message for The Mountaineers

My vote is the Château de Langeais.

It changed hands many times, but it was where Anne of Brittany and Charles VIII were married, uniting Brittany and France in 1491. Before that, in 1466, it was given to Jean de Dunois, “The Bastard of Orléans.”

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Anne of Brittany’s father, Francis II of Brittany, had a few illegitimate sons, who would have been Anne’s half-brothers. He had those sons with Antoinette de Maignelais, who had been Charles VII’s chief mistress until his death, which could be the confluence of two families? Since a) she was somewhat part of the royal family and b) Francis’ mistress and therefore would have been essentially another family living with Francis’ legal family. My bet would be more on perhaps Château des ducs de Bretagne, where Anne herself was born, and which was the residence of the dukes of Brittany during Anne’s time.

I don’t have conclusive proof that his illegitimate sons were born there, and honestly, I’m not even sure who they were, people don’t seem to be too interested in them, but still, there’s a healthy chance they were born there. And it would make sense for Alison not to know exactly their relation to Anne, or that they were descended from a famous family like that since these bastard sons seem to be ignored by history. Even on genealogies and family trees, they are typically listed as just “illegitimate sons” image

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Right on the money there Lexington.

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Okay, so I did a sweep in general of homes associated with Anne of Brittany. I say homes because honestly most of them are castles, not houses, but it’s about all she lived in.

Château des ducs de Bretagne - She was born here, and the possibilities here are detailed by @Wyvern.

Château de Langeais - She married Charles VIII here. In addition to the Jean de Dunois connection @Lexington pointed out, this marriage was only legal because she got an annulment from the Pope himself of her previous marriage (and her husband’s daughter was engaged to Charles… yikes). Depending on how we want to interpret illegitimacy, all of Anne’s kids by Charles could be called illegitimate, but none of them lived to adulthood.

Château du Clos Lucé - While married to Charles, Anne lived primarily in the royal castles of Amboise, Loches and Plessis, BUT while at Amboise, she actually resided in the nearby Clos Lucé, which was remodeled entirely for her (and looks much more house-like than the others on this list) by Charles. (Clos Lucé was also the future home of Leonardo da Vinci.)

Château de Blois - After Charles’ death, the treaty Anne signed as a part of her marriage stipulated that if he died without male heirs, Anne would marry his successor. His successor, Louis XII, was already married (to his cousin, gross). Again an official annulment by the Pope was needed to get Anne wed. After this marriage, she primarily resided in Château de Blois. Louis XII had an illegitimate son, Michel Bucy, during this time, but there’s nothing I can find on if said son was born at Blois.

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Leonardo da Vinci was actually also born out of wedlock, and although he wasn’t born in Clos Lucé, that is still an interesting connection. It couldn’t be the house where Leonardo was born since that was in Italy but it’s interesting that Leo was also apparently something of a bastard.That lends a bit more evidence for Clos Lucé although since he wasn’t born there it’s more tenuous.

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Hi Mounties! I sent your ideas to Ali and her response just came through. I’m sharing it in its entirety, even though she said I could cut out what I wanted. I think you all should know everything. Also, :confetti_ball:

Those are all great guesses, and please tell them how much I appreciate their research, but none of them feel exactly right. They’re definitely on the right track, though.

I’m having a hard time with the meditation practice and finding more information because A) it’s hard and nebulously effective, and I really, really like detailed instructions and concrete outcomes, and B) well, B is the reason I really need to find this place and my mom in the first place. I’m pregnant. Like, woefully, massively pregnant, (and yes, Eaves, the guy who helped make this happen knows, and he’s excellent, as you also know, but I have no intention of raising this kid with him.)

My memories had already turned foggy and fragmented since the turn of the new age, but I think, though I’m not sure, that whatever memories I still have, whatever power I still possess, is already being transferred to her. Yes, her. Baby girl. Yes, I’m really excited and pissed off and regretful and hopeful, and whatever. And I never thought I’d say this, but right now, more than ever, I want my mom. I want to be with her when it’s time. I know her mom was with her when I was born, and the transference took place. My baby won’t be able to access them until she’s older, not wholly, and not like I could because all the rules have changed, but I still want all the support I can get when it happens. When I lose the power and become a mom myself.

I never thought I wanted kids until Port. Until I had to protect her from Fallon and his cronies, until I felt that fear, that primal need to keep her safe. I didn’t know I was capable of that. I remember my mom’s fierce independence, the independent spirit of my countless ancestors, and thought that was my future. And also, I wasn’t sure I wanted to pass this on to anyone. Maybe I wanted the line to end.

Then Port got a little older, more independent, and started building relationships of her own, like her sisterhood with Yuri, which is the most beautiful thing. And she didn’t need me anymore. Not like she used to.

But I realized I did have more in me than memories. I had love and tenderness that I was blind to most of my life. So when it happened, a complete accident I might add, and I found out, I knew I wanted to see it through. Anyway. Send this to the Mounties if you want, or not if I seem like I’ve gone completely soft and saccharine as I’ve hit my 30s.

I have two or three images in my head, and maybe they’ll help.

  • Hunting on the grounds. One of my first memories. Possibly the first in our line. The son born from a confluence, near a confluence.
  • Renovations in Renaissance style. New buildings.
  • Soldiers. 18th century-ish uniforms. Commandeering, damaging the house.

OMG, Ali being the last to know she has a heart of gold is peak precious. And Magical BC34 Bab FTW!! We have to get Ali to Knatz before she pops. Do your thing, Mounties!

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Perhaps Château de Chantilly?

It was destroyed during the French Revolution which might account for the soldiers - and it was rebuilt in Renaissances style. It also has an art gallery with Renaissance-era paintings. The house matches some of the other criteria as well, but I wasn’t able to match it to “confluence” off hand.

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First: tenor

Second: I haven’t got very far into the digging, but Lyon comes up a few times in Anne’s history and is home to a big ol’ confluence (even has a Confluence Museum, though that’s definitely not old enough for what we’re looking for).

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Okay, poked around a bit more. Checked other rivers and everything, but Lyon still looks most promising on the confluence front.

Tried looking up historic residences, and Hôtel Bullioud looks most promising. Antoine Bullioud was General Treasurer of Finance in Brittany just before Anne died (based on year, anyway). It’s probably more tin foil, and I haven’t had luck checking for illegitimate children, but maybe something to look into?

Edit: May also be worth digging about at Boutiers-Saint-Trojan, I saw the word confluence re: borders, and Claude’s husband’s relations track back to nearby Cognac, and there were some illegitimate children (daughters so far as I can find, but who knows?).

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Built at the confluence of the Veinne and Loire Rivers. Anne of Brittany spent most of her life in the Loire Valley. Phone’s about to die, so dig away lol

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It is also the subject of an Alexander Dumas book called Le Dame De Monsoreau, which one summary describes as a tale of fraternal strife. Perhaps that is a transposed memory of an illegitimate son, one that in this Book of the Wild is fiction, which could explain part of why the memory is so hard to access now. It’s no longer “real”. It is certainly a Renaissance style building, and had been a site of various conflicts over the years.

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I’m also liking how much green space there is in the surrounding areas, with that memory of hunting on the grounds. Definitely a good find!

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Hi Mounties!

Ali just wanted to let you know that something about @Fox’s Château de Chantilly felt worth investigating, though she couldn’t put her finger on why. She’s heading there now, should take her a day to get there, and she’ll follow up when she can. :crossed_fingers:

I hope you’re all well.

We’re good. We’ve spent the past two weeks rebuilding and replanting our garden after an unfortunate week of rain led to a very minor but not at all inconsequential mudslide which wiped out a good chunk of the southern grounds outside the castle. :confused: We found remnants of old stone walls near the woods, maybe retaining walls that used to protect against this, so rebuilding them might be the next step for us. #castlecore

Also, our castle puppy is finally cool with lightbulbs.:bulb: Yay! It’s quite a long road to the 21st century. We’re currently in the 1920s, which in many ways I prefer to the 2020s if I’m being honest.

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Thanks for the update, @Eaves! I hope Ali has a fruitful visit - if nothing else, the place looks beautiful.

Mudslides are insidious - might be worth taking a survey of the grounds to check for other weak spots. And yay for castle puppy getting trained! Maybe now that you’re in the 1920s, everyone can learn the jitterbug.

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Chateau de Chantilly seems most affiliated with Anne de Montmorency, who was supposedly named for his godmother, Anne of Brittany.

Looks like his eldest son married an illegitimate daughter against his will, but that’s the closest I can find to that part.

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Looks like Chantilly is another river confluence, of the Oise and Seine. Extensive grounds and famous stables would lend to the hunting memory. The illegitimate son part is the main hang up for all of these places though. Plenty of illegitimate daughters, but no sons to be found =/

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I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that in those circles they’d be less likely to admit that a son was illegitimate if at all possible, what with inheritance of titles and all that fun stuff. It’s no wonder we’re having such a time finding any.

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I just saw Ali wrote back this morning, sorry for not sending it sooner. Still working on internet.

I’m just imagining poor pregnant Ali waddling around in the summer heat. I feel for her. :sweat:

I’m afraid Chateau de Chantilly is a gorgeous dud. I was too tired (and huge) to explore everything, but I knew the moment the tour stepped onto the grounds. Maybe I’d been there at some point in my lineage, but this isn’t the place. Nothing felt familiar. Well, that’s not entirely true. There’s a museum there, and something about it felt resonant, but it was too faint to grasp. There were several paintings there that caught my attention, by Antoine Watteau, but again, nothing concrete. Tell the Mounties I’m sorry I can’t help them to better hone in on the answer, but I appreciate them offering to help. This is driving me nuts. On the flip side, this part of the country is gorgeous, and does feel familiar. I don’t think we’re on the wrong track, we’re just— track adjacent.

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This is mostly a lot of big leaps of logic, but I think Chateau de Meudon could be it?

First, it was decorated by Claude Audran III sometime between 1695 and 1711, which includes 1708, the year that Antoine Watteau began working with Audran, which is a potential connection to Watteau, especially if he happened to assist in decorating this place.

Second, it was bought in 1426 by the valet of Charles VII. Charles VII was the grandfather of Charles VIII, who Anne of Brittany was married to for 7 years. That’s a tenuous connection but the best I could find, really. The valet’s grandson, Antoine Sanguin, then demolished and rebuilt the manor in an Italian renaissance style in 1520. The place has been rebuilt several times which fits the “new buildings” part of Ali’s sense. Edit: Antoine Sanguin’s father, Jean Sanguin, was apparently known as the “Bastard of Sanguin,” although whether he was actually illegitimate is unknown and I couldn’t find anything about the man on the internet unfortunately.

Third, it sits between Paris and Versailles “in the heart of a hunting reserve”, according to wikipedia. Louis XVI loved to hunt here apparently.

Fourth, in 1793, Meudon was converted to a testing facility for military “aerostats” and other scientific experiments. In 1795, a fire destroyed much of certain parts of the chateau, caused by some of the research being conducted.

To be honest I’m not entirely sure where the illegitimate son or confluence part comes in? And some of this is pretty tenuous, but I suppose we could consider some of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette’s children to be “illegitimate” in the antiquated sense because they were adopted? As far as I am aware though, neither of their adopted sons ever married or had children. Louis XV had a LOT of illegitimate kids, only one of whom was ever legitimized, so it also theoretically could have been one of them (although the legitimized son ended up becoming an Abbot so maybe didn’t have kids). A TON of people have lived here over the ages though so there’s a fairly decent chance that someone was illegitimate and having a good time! The confluence part is harder to understand though.

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So, at risk of making another very pregnant woman walk around another (possibly un-air conditioned) ancient home in the summer heat - what about this place?

So, as a big etymology fan, I’ve been poking around at the word “confluence” from Ali’s images Eaves sent us:

“Condé” means “confluent” in French via the Latin “Condatum” which in turn is from the Celtic “Condate” - it means were two rivers meet. This chateau is at the confluence of two rivers, which gives the place its name.

It might just be that it’s a pretty commonly used French place name and therefore pure coincidence, but the museum that Ali felt resonance with at Chateau de Chantilly’s name is " Musée Condé".

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